Condoleezza Rice: The Most Inspiring of the Inspiring

A few weeks ago, I was asked by Drew University’s magazine to compile a list of the 6 most inspiring interviews I’ve conducted as a Drew student reporter.  I avoided this task indefinitely, knowing it was going to be tough to select only 6. Since my freshman year, I’ve been the reporter assigned to cover the Forum Speaker appearances; that is to cover the visits of prominent political or media figures to the likes of Dr. Robert Gates and Arianna Huffington. While I’ve conducted just over ten of these interviews, all of them were equally inspiring, in their own way, and it took me over an hour to narrow it down.

After compiling my list, which looks something like #1 Anderson Cooper, #2 Tom Brokaw, #3 Arianna Huffington, #4 Robert Gates, and #5 Gerry Adams, I explained to the mag’s editor that I needed to save the #6 spot for the interview I would be conducting at the end of that week with Former Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice. I just had a feeling. Now, as I reflect on the interview just about a week later, I’m thinking of making her #1.

As I walked to Meade Hall for the interview, I had mixed emotions. I was obviously excited, but also beginning to feel the tiny beads of sweat roll down my forehead; I was incredibly nervous! Nervous for two reasons: The first, I was about to sit down with Condoleezza Rice. The second, I had a forum interviewer-to-be shadowing me. I wondered if the experience would be like the one I had with Gerry Adams: five minutes to ask seven questions, walls lined with CIA. I hoped not.

As I pulled open the door at Meade Hall, it was immediately obvious that the experiences would have little similarity. Not to say my experience interviewing Mr. Adams was bad in anyway, but having 15, or so, men in black suits lining the walls staring at you every move you make- is quite intimidating for a rookie journalist.

As Ms. Rice entered the room she waved happily at the group of students waiting to speak with her and immediately introduced herself to us. I shook out my last minute jitters and took my usual place across from Ms. Rice.

After a very touching introduction to her by the University’s Communications Officer, where he explained that Ms. Rice, “should remember [my] name, because I will be going very far in the field of journalism,” I asked her my first question.

“You grew up in Birmingham when it was still racially segregated,” I prefaced it. “What was that like and how did your experiences there shape your future,” I continued.

“On one hand, I had a really normal childhood,” Ms. Rice began. “I took dance lessons, piano lessons, did all the normal things. Parents made a very conscious effort to make everything seem normal and they did a really good job at it. For the most part, I don’t think we really knew anything was wrong because we never really crossed into ‘White Birmingham,’” she explained.

As her eyes began to fill with a very light trace of a tear, Ms. Rice continued, “It wasn’t until the bombing of the Birmingham Church, where I lost my very best kindergarten friend, did I know there was something wrong.”

Touched by her response, I let out the smallest “oh my gosh,” under my breath and we connected. In that moment, she smiled and said, “It was that moment that taught me how resilient the human sprit really is. How capable one is of putting the past behind them and moving on,” she said. “I’m not sure if the specific connection, but my experiences in Birmingham definitely had an impact on my decision to become Secretary of State,” Ms. Rice continued.

After opening the conversation with learning a bit about her background, I moved into a short conversation about an interview Jenna Bush conducted with Ms. Rice for Southern Living Magazine. In the interview, Ms. Rice explained that her parents taught her that she would always have to be “twice as good,” to overcome prejudice. Based on this idea, I asked whether or not she feels this ideal still fits in regards to women aiming high career wise.

“Yes, definitely,” she said. “But honestly, race and gender based prejudice aside, it’s not a bad mantra for anyone. It’s a great thing to remember when you’re in any environment where you are different or feel kind of confined. It helps you step outside of the box,” she said.

As my last kind of “introduction to the interview” question, I asked Ms. Rice how being told she would be one of the first two women admitted to the Augusta National made her feel. She simply explained that she felt very “surprised and excited.” She went on to explain that she feels it’s a wonderful institution that has really pushed the growth of the game.

After getting acquainted to Ms. Rice’s warm personality after these few questions, I moved into the more serious questions. The first of these being one of my personal favorite questions that I’ve ever asked: As a member of the Bush Administration, what piece of criticism about yourself/the administration as a whole that you heard of read hurt you the most and why?

With a firm nod and a clasp of her hands, Ms. Rice proceeded, “It’s really hurtful to hear that people don’t think you’re telling the truth. I never once intended to lie about anything during my time as a part of that administration. I always told the truth and presented things to the public in the way I believed they were really happening,” she said. “It made me really angry to see how many people really thought we were lying. It’s one thing for the public to disagree with us, but it’s quite another to repeatedly hear that you’re not being honest.”

Following my question regarding her time on the Bush administration, I moved into a question about the Boston Marathon bombing. Since her lecture followed the tragedy by just three days, I anticipated it would be something she would address in her forum to the Drew community. Her response reflected an agreement with information Dr. Robert Gates, former Secretary of Defense, provided me with in an interview a few months ago.

“While visiting Drew, Dr. Gates explained that in his opinion, a large-scale attack like 9/11 is an unlikely threat for the U.S in present day,” I said. “He went on to state that we now need to be more concerned with smaller scale attacks, like what happened in Boston on Monday.  Do you agree or disagree with this,” my question read.

Very similar to the to the insight that Dr. Gates shared, Ms. Rice stated that currently, the U.S. needs to be concerned with Al Queda affiliates. “Home-grown people are actually a large concern at this point as well,” she said. “What occurred in Boston does not feel very foreign to me at this point. It feels Al Queda inspired but domestically executed.”

While our conversation about this continued for much longer than her assistants wanted to allow, my next question touched on the truth behind the recent Hollywood film, “Zero Dark Thirty.” As a viewer that was incredibly enthralled by it, I was eager to get her onion. Was it fact, fiction, or a mix of the two, I asked.

And…I think you’ll all be as shocked by her answer as I was. “I haven’t seen it so I can’t tell you honestly, Kimberly.” After a quick, “wow, really??” I asked her why and she didn’t really have an exact answer. That’s something I really wish I poked at a bit more. I would love to know!!!!

Although we were really beginning to engage with each other at this point in the interview, I thought her assistants were going to kill me if I took anymore of her time so I began to wrap the interview by asking if she feels the nation is ready for a woman president and if yes, would she ever consider running.

With a sharp yes, she assured me that of course the nation is ready for a woman president BUT it will NEVER be her.

“I love policy. I don’t love politics,” she said with an honest laugh. “I don’t have the right DNA. When I worked for President Bush he would be up alllllllll night working,” as she exaggerated the “all.” “I don’t want to do that- I want to go to bed at night,” she laughed.

“But seriously, Kimberly, I’ve never wanted to run for office. I like being behind the scenes,” she smiled.

As she thanked me for a great interview (which nearly made me pee my pants, by the way!) she also asked one of the other students sitting in on the interview to take a picture of us. Yes, that’s right I said SHE asked!!!!

As we began to part ways and head for the exits, she said, “I get what Dave said now. I really will see you doing this professionally one day,” then she shook my hand and said goodbye.

I called my mom and told her I could die happily. Condoleezza Rice approves of my journalism skills.

(Photo cred: James McCourt)

Dr. Vivian Bull: The Inspiring Story behind the face of Drew University’s Interim President

 As Drew University prepared to make several academic transitions this year, one of them included welcoming back Dr. Vivian Bull, a woman who had previously contributed over 30 years of teaching in the econ department, and served for eight years as associate dean.

While her time at Drew includes over 21 archaeological expeditions in the Middle East, and four Brussels Semesters on the European Community, Dr. Bull’s journey leading up to academia at Drew is even more aweing.

In beginning our conversation, I explained to Dr. Bull that all I would need in this interview was a brief synopsis of her career journey.

With a polite smile and obviously warm heart, Dr.Bull joked, “Well Kimberly, that’s over 72 years of work, you might have to be a little more specific,” she laughed.

As I sat with her just over a week ago to discuss the details for an Acorn story, I realized she would be the perfect fit to follow up last week’s post about Jessie. As one of the first women to work at the Federal Reserve Bank and major in Economics, she appears to be one of the examples Jessie was alluding to when she said that she feels she must continue to advocate for the betterment of women’s lives, because she must tribute the women who have already done as much.

“I grew up in a Swedish family in Northern Michigan,” Dr. Bull began. “The idea of something being ‘for the boys’ simply did not exist. There was a great deal of activity surrounding my family. We skied, did things outdoors, and we did all these things together. I was raised with the mentality that anyone could do anything if they worked hard enough,” she continued.

As she approached college age, Dr. Bull explained that she began to think a lot about becoming involved in church leadership. “But, they weren’t ordaining women,” she said. “I think around this time was when I became aware that there were things women just ‘wouldn’t do,’ she noted as she created air quotations with her hands.

“So, I went to community college first, we all did, in an attempt to save some money, and then I attended Albion College. There, I was the only female Economics major. I worked breakfast in the morning, worked at the bookstore, and was the housemother for my living space.”

While Dr. Bull was given a taste of gender discrimination when she thought about getting ordained, the severity of the situation set in post-college when she applied for a position at a large Detroit bank (the Federal Reserve).

“I got a letter back explaining that they only hired women for secretarial positions,” she explained. But- with nothing more than her own determination to get her to the top of the list, Dr. Bull contacted a male member of the bank that she had met and was eventually hired. “I was the only woman there for quite some time. I eventually recruited another. But then it was just the two of us,” she continued.

From there, Dr. Bull moved on to the London School of Economics, and then with $250 in her pocket, on to the Middle East. “I had this feeling that the Lord intended for me to travel, so I saved up my money and I went,” she explained. “I was born at the end of the depression people really did not have the opportunity to travel around for leisure but I was determined to do so,” she said.

And her prediction about the Lord intending for her to travel may not have been too far off. While traveling through Jerusalem, Dr. Bull met a member of Drew’s Theological School faculty and they were married in 1959.

As she paused the walk-through of her career journey, she smiled nostalgically as she reflected, just for a second, on her wedding night. “It was snowing and 39 below zero on that night,” she smiled. “We moved back here and we lived in Tipple D, [a Drew Theological School residence].”

“I thought perhaps I should still be in banking, but I did some job evaluating after the move to New Jersey,” she explained to me.

Around 1960 or ’61, Bell Abbotsford hired Dr. Bull. This name unfamiliar to me, it took until she stated that, “AT&T had a monopoly,” for me to understand that she was referencing Bell, like mobile phones, TV, Internet, and home phone services, Bell.

She explained that she was initially hired to HR, but eventually many staff positions opened up and she was hired for one of them because she kept herself very involved in the company.

“It was the coolest place in the world to be,” she said. “At this time, there was no computer science happening anywhere. But it was happening at Bell Abbs. It was an all male environment, and then there was me,” Dr. Bull laughed.

“I learned Fortran (a programming lingo) while there, and eventually used it as one of the languages in my Ph.D. It was an incredible learning experience,” she continued.

“It was a very stimulating place. We worked with sound and computer, human factors effecting engineering, satellite transmission tests, princess phones, and tested how people reacted to change. I was actually even used as one of the first computer voices because I’d always pop my head in the lab down the hall to see what they were doing, and one day they invited me in,” she said.

In the mid 60’s, Dr. Bull was asked by a friend of the University to teach an accounting class at Drew two days a week, and following her impressive performance as a professor she was hired full-time. “I was hired under the assumption that I would go back and get my Ph.D. So I did, I applied to Princeton.”

“When I was hired at Drew in ’64, there still a good amount of grief thrown my way for being a woman. And think about it Kimberly, ’64 is not really that long ago,” she said.

“The person who hired me joked with my husband that they should begin to hire more married people because they’d be getting two employees for the price of one. Women were still being paid less than men. It’s shocking to think about right,” she asked.

“From the moment I was hired, I knew that more work needed to be done to change the ideas and attitudes that surrounded women in the workplace. We still needed more women in the workforce,” she said.

While it may seem that a woman like Dr. Bull would have been sought out by the prestigious Princeton Univeristy, her rejection letter, yes, I said rejection letter, stated that they were still not accepting women. “That rejection was pretty recent, actually,” she said. “Can you believe it?”

I couldn’t, but Dr. Bull went on to explain that she then happily attend New York University where she, “never worked harder or had a richer experience.”

But, needless to say, even with a Ph.D from NYU, there were jokes about the University needing to make changes in order for Dr. Bull to have access to a restroom while at work.

Once at Drew, Dr. Bull and her husband still returned to the Middle East every summer. “I think in the years between the early 60s and 96, we only missed one two summers out there,” she explained.

The two engaged in various projects. Dr. Bull’s highlight being her research on the West Bank Under the first seven years of Israel’s occupation. “I served as a link between the economic bank in Israel and Jordan. I eventually published a data collection that engaged a conversation about what was happening between the two parties,” she explained.

In 1988, Dr. Bull engaged with a University Planning Committee Cross Cultural group in Zimbabwe where she served on the board for many years following.

Shortly following her ’88 trip to Zimbabwe, Dr. Bull learned of an opening for the president position at Linfield College in McMinnville, Oregon “I went for the interview, but then dumped the materials the second I got back to the airport. How could a woman be president, where were all the pivot-stones,” she explained she had asked herself.

“But I was hired. I suggested the school make a change- consider someone for the position who was slightly different, in gender, and they did. I was actually very shocked,” she said.

“When they called me, I told them they would have to re-send me the information packet,” she laughed.

While at Linfield, Dr. Bull helped lead a revolution. She re-made the college town and re-built the community, with help from everyone in McMinnville. “We raised over 100 million dollars and made the vision for what Linfield could be, contagious. We changed everything. Everyone got into it,” Dr. Bull said.

Post Linfield, Dr. Bull even still continued her summer trips to the Middle East. “Yes, there were eventually a lot of children running around South Africa and the Middle East wearing Linfield t-shirts. I accumulated a lot,” she laughed.

“In the midst of all of this, I got a call from Drew, and here I am,” she smiled a large smile.

As we began to touch on her interim presidency at Drew, I thought Dr. Bull’s incredible journey had reached its end. But I was wrong…

“Oh yes, and in ’48 I worked a war refugee camp for women. I helped them learn how to complete small tasks like making potteries, or providing food to tourists. I did what I could to help them turn their culture and trade into commodity and currency,” she said.

Talk about an impressive woman, huh? Well, after sitting down to chat with me about this inspiring journey, and kindly answering my questions for over forty minutes, Dr. Bull asked a few favors of myself and my female readers…

“You can do anything you want to do. Remember that, keep focus, and reach back to those behind us. I’ve lived a very rich and rewarding life thus far. I don’t think I’ve ever turned down an opportunity to travel or be educated. I hope many women will continue to do the same,” she said.

“Women need to begin thinking more about ‘team play.’ We will not do well if we do not mentor the next group,” she continued.

“Think about the women’s movement during all of this. The t-shirt that read something to the likes of: ‘Women need to be two times as good as men…well that’s easy,” she laughed in conclusion.

Jessie Haims: A Gut Feeling that Lead to A World Chamption Title

As someone who believes very strongly in fate, I often find myself saying, “When ya know, ya know.” In the case of Jessica Haims, this couldn’t be any truer.

Jessie, who graduated from Drew University with a degree in Women’s Studies in December, a semester early, discovered her passion for dance “by complete accident,” at age 15.

“I had gone with my mom to her dance lesson after school and she was planning on dropping me off at a friend’s house afterwards. As I watched her dance, I was mesmerized and thought it was the most beautiful thing I’d ever seen. Instead of going to my friend’s house…I took my first lesson,” Jessie warmly explained.

 “After that lesson, I said to my mom, I want to finish high school early and dance. I don’t know what came over me, I just knew that I had to be involved in it and in that moment, I knew my life would be consumed by the arts. It was kinda a gut instinct feeling,” she smiled.

Well, if Jessie’s journey with dance is any indication of how truthful your gut may be, we better all start goin’ with it.

In 2011, this gal won herself the 2011 national AND world champion titles in the American Smooth Pro Am ball room dance division, all because she trusted her instinct.

After the epiphany she had while watching her mom dance, Jessie, “petitioned [her] high school to let [her] graduate early so that [she] could have a year to focus on dance training.”

“I knew I had A LOT to learn because I was starting later and life, and if I really wanted this, I would have to work incredibly hard,” she explained. “I was granted permission to graduate early, and began driving from Connecticut to New Jersey on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and New York on Tuesdays and Thursday to train. On weekends, I practiced from home,” she explained.

“My entire life became about dance. I had no social life what so ever, but I was fine with it because I was pursuing a passion. I had the support of my family, and I got to travel around the country to dance,” Jessie said.

While Jessie’s discovery of her passion for dance was quite accidental, it eventually proved to be a saving grace that entered her life at the most perfect time. A victim of two encounters with sexual violence at a very young age, Jessie accredits dance, and other passions for making her whole again.

“Dance allowed me to heal, love my body, and realize that experience doesn’t define the rest of my life or who I am,” she explained. “It helped me in not letting the experience ruin intimate relationships for me. Dancing is very intimate, expressive, and personal so it helped me feel those emotions again without being scared.”

In line with this idea, Jessie explained that even though she has grown an incredible amount since her experiences with sexual violence, “emotions are very hard for [her],” even still. “When I started dance, it was the only place where I wasn’t sad for a very long time, it was the only place I could laugh and feel safe. Particularly in ballroom dance where you are so intimate with your dance partner, acting like you’re in love, it allowed me to establish a new, more defined, comfort zone with those feelings,” she elaborated.

“Dance created a space where I could express myself, know that I was in control over my own body and that no one else was, it taught me to be strong, and to never give up, to work incredibly hard, and to remember that giving up is not an option. If one way doesn’t work, you have to try plan b…or…c….or…d,” she smiled.

While Jessie is incredibly thankful for what dance has offered her, she explained that she most definitely still struggles with what she is feeling and how to express it. However, instead of feeling forced to hide, or cry it out, she now has the option to dance it out! “When I’m mad or frustrated, I can channel that energy towards an awesome tango. When I’m sad or upset, I channel that towards my waltz to give a real performance.”

Now, it is incredibly obvious that dance has been an extremely gratifying and rewarding part of Jessie’s life, but as of late, her dance career has taken a bit of a backset to her more recent passion: yoga. “During college, I would train for dance a minimum of four hours a day. I am currently looking for a new partner, so I haven’t competed in awhile, and I only train with my coach two times a week. But- I still practice daily by myself and can’t wait to get back on the floor,” she explained.

As mentioned, in the meantime, Jessie busies herself with yoga, among many other things. “I am teaching over 21 yoga classes, as well as training private clients. Additionally, I’m trying out new partners, working with a new company that wants to incorporate my yoga skills to help dancers, volunteering in centers to help women, and continuing personal yoga training,” she went on.

AND- Jessie proudly just registered her LLC. This LLC will eventually be a center for yoga and dance therapy to help women who are survivors of sexual violence, a dream this girl has been building towards since the day I met her four years ago. Since dance and yoga have helped Jessie cope with her own struggles, she says she feels that, “If [she] were able to survive and have dance and yoga help [her], it would be shame for [her] to not share these gifts with those who need it the most.”

“When I have a passion, especially one that can help others, I feel that to not try to pursue it one hundred percent would be so sad. I’m currently working towards this goal by reaching out to crisis centers and a lot of my clients are women who have body image disorders. Beyond working with women who are victims of sexual violence, I want to help young women feel empowered and proud of their bodies, not ashamed,” she continued.

As for a next step, Jessie explained that she would love to own her own yoga studio and start charity work out of it. “If someone finds a passion so young, it’s for a reason. With MY passion, it is my goal to help as many people as I can through my yoga and dance. When we have a gift, we should use it in the best way we can,” she said.

Outside of dance and yoga, Jessie explained that she is incredibly fascinated by the human body and how it reacts to food. “I’m always reading about it and looking to get my dietician’s license in a year or two. I’m always craving knowledge and looking to educate myself whenever I can,” she said. And, as someone who sat beside her in several classes, I will vouche for this J She is an inspiringly smart girl on a mission!

“I’m also very very very very,” she exaggerated, “passionate about helping women in all spheres: everyday life, personal life, and particularly politics,” she explained. “I am so worried about the direction in which our culture is headed in terms of the treatment of women. I try to do my part as best I can to fight this. As much as I love yoga and dance, I’ve always thought about going to get my PhD one day. We need more female voices so these men are no longer making laws about our bodies. I can’t believe its 2013 and there are still issues about women accessing contraception.”

In concluding our conversation, Jessie explained, “As you can see, I don’t like to stay still. I’m always working on another idea, always looking for work, and finding another way to improve myself. I am inspired and awed by women who fought for our rights and equality and for me to not continue that idea would be an insult to all of that hard work.”

“I don’t yet know where I will end up in terms of helping women and the fight for reproductive freedom, rights, and equality, but I know my strong passion for it will lead me and take me very far,” she said, and I, as her peer, couldn’t agree more. Whether it be through yoga, dance, politics, or a combination of the three, Jessie’s promising mission and method will most definitely prove groundbreaking in the journey of women’s health one day.